The Airsoft Experience
The Airsoft Experience
New Game Type Hitting the fields in 2024. Proxy wars designed by Mike McGeorge and guest Kyle Kakei
Embark on an insider's exploration of the Airsoft world with Michael Massicotte, as I sit down with the battle-hardened veterans of Team Echo, Mike McGeorge and Kyle Kakei. This episode promises a deep dive into the heart of Airsoft culture, dissecting the evolution of a team that's set new benchmarks for mil-sim engagement in Ontario. We're not just pulling triggers; we're crafting narratives – and you're about to find out how our upcoming game at the compound is set to redefine immersive gameplay.
Winning isn't just about scores when it comes to Airsoft military simulations, it's about the strategy, the camaraderie, and the realism that players bring to the field. In a candid conversation with my guests, we unravel the complexities of victory in mil-sim – a nuanced dance of tactical decisions and geopolitical underpinnings that echo real-world conflicts. We'll also touch on the rigors of Airsoft combat, from the adrenaline rush of a frag grenade to the critical role of medical rules, and how these elements shape the authenticity of the encounter.
Stepping into the realm of game hosting, we set the scene for an upcoming Airsoft event that holds safety and integrity in high regard, seeking out participants who embody a genuine respect for the sport. Mike, Kyle, and I discuss the stringent guidelines that maintain the pulse of the game, ensuring that every player's experience is nothing short of exceptional. As we conclude, we tease the transformative changes on the horizon for Ontario Airsoft and invite our listeners to gear up for the collaborative and exhilarating future that awaits at the compound.
Action Airsoft Club
www.actionairsoft.ca 905-615-7757
Ballistic Prints
www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089181244866
SlingX
www.slingx.ca
Lightfighter Milsim Airsoft Team www.facebook.com/lightfightersmilsim
Nsceibelab Laser Designs
www,facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089285134479
Army Issue Surplus Inc.
www.armyissue.com 905-271-1665
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Parental advisory. Now welcome to the Airsoft experience 6-1. We have contact left, side 70. Coming to you Contact left contact left.
Speaker 3:We're flanking left side. Suppress, Push, push, push, we're moving. We're moving Right side, right side.
Speaker 1:Alright, and welcome to a special episode of the Airsoft experience. I am your host, michael Mascott, also known as Magic in Ontario Airsoft, and today we've got not so new dudes in Ontario Airsoft but new-ish to the new game host scene and I wanted to quickly get a quick episode out about this new, not new, crew called Team Echo and we have Mike McGeorge, the leader of the team, and Kyle Kukai, kukai, kukai Fuck, I knew I was going to fuck that up. Sort of Kyle. All good, welcome to the Airsoft experience. Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1:No problem, we're doing a short episode because we do have a game at the new mega field, the compound. All the information will be put in the description of this mini episode, and I also want you to know that we're doing a full Team Echo episode this afternoon, aren't we boys?
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, all of us. Oh yeah, because people need to know. I know there's a lot of people in Ontario Airsoft, myself included that play with you guys directly. We train together and I mean even off the field we hang out and you guys are good guys and I think that the community needs a refresher of who Echo is. So before we kind of get into the premise of this, I want to say industry changing game. Give us a quick background of your team.
Speaker 2:So you know, obviously for more information, listen to that, to the podcast, just about the team itself. But in a nutshell, we've been around for a while. I'll tell you long enough that my kids were born years after starting and now they drive to see me. So it's been a while Like I'm expecting to be a grandfather soon.
Speaker 2:I would say, that's a while for sure Within the time I've been playing Airsoft, so we bring a lot of experience. We've been in terms of hosting. Now I've hosted I don't know you guys can do the math upwards of, at some points two to three games a week for, I'd say, the first at least 15 years of being a team. So hundreds and hundreds of games. We have commanded large scale events, multi hundred player events at PRZ, some of by some of the largest hosts out there, some of the household brand names that you know of, and we've been lucky enough as well to be able to play south of the border. So we've kind of got a good oversight of what Airsoft is and what really high end games look like both in Canada and in the States, and we're enthusiasts. That's kind of what it comes down to is.
Speaker 2:We are on that quest for more. We want better than the status quo and we know that the community wants better. But sometimes the community doesn't know what they want until you show it to them and then they go. You're right, you know.
Speaker 2:That's what I was missing, and what we're going to do here is we're going to bring some of those experiences of what we've had. We're going to take some of the most memorable moments from games that we've attended and hosted and we want to bring that to the public and give them that opportunity to experience those moments for themselves. So you know, I have my what do they call it my that real in my head of memories, that you know those amazing moments, that when you go out with the boys and you're drinking. I want a game that all of those memories I get to share with players and allow them to experience those moments right from, you know, getting blown up by your friends to blowing up an enemy and everything in between. And we'll get more into that. But that's kind of what we as a team are. Our beginnings there, you know ages ago. That's what we as a team are going to bring to the table when it comes time to host this game.
Speaker 1:That sounds like something I'm definitely interested in and being, I guess, close with you guys and like we're developing our own game too as a separate entity, and it's kind of I think you and I are on the same page. We're kind of spinning things to, like I always say, more of a realism end as much as airsoft will allow us. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2:That's. That's absolutely fair to say. In fact, you know what airsofters you have my commitment you will never do a frango do a mission, carry a jug of water, help somebody change their fucking tire, go over there and do a news report on the front line, on the firing line or some other bullshit. You will never do some cockamamie, dog shit, frango that is twice removed from the battlefield. There is nothing in rages me more than when you are tasked to take over an arbitrary point on the map for some reason. That gains no tactical advantage. You know we'll use the one, everybody knows the kitchen. And all of a sudden it's hey, by the way, grab your two squads and at one o'clock go meet Sam in the boatyard I don't know, I guess Sam's a boat salesman and then get fucking ambushed by dudes with thermals. Hell, no, you're welcome airsofters. It'll never, ever. That's my commitment. You will never do it.
Speaker 1:That's very, very vivid example, definitely been involved in some events where it's like that and it's I understand where you're coming from. So you have a certain I want to say not even a some of them don't even have a storyline so you're going in it's you've got to go, do this for a certain amount of time, so that way they don't do this. And then basically what you're saying is you're pulled at a moment's notice, or maybe a preset time, depending on the game, game host, whatever, where you're pulled into an area of the field that may not be in use in the regular game. So basically it's taking your thought pattern, which maybe by now you've been holding a position.
Speaker 1:You've, guys, got a, you know, an LA ambush, a fire line set up, but then now you're going to do some cockamie me made up mission that has nothing to do with the game. That now pulls your mindset in a totally different direction, for no reason whatsoever other than to try to get a gun fight going at a different part of the field, disrupts the flow. Disrupts the flow mentally, physically, and we all know, you know, in Ontario airsoft, especially as it goes like later in the game, trying to find two full fucking squads on the field at three o'clock in the morning to go do a frag or a side mission, it's. It can make or break a game. I understand that, but it also just totally changes the mood of the players. I guess you're trying to say Well, so imagine this.
Speaker 2:Let me paint the picture for you. You, you've been running hard all day, you're, you're fucking tired, you know, the Gooch is just dripping with sweat, it's, it's been a long one. You've passed the barbecues going on and they're simmering some nice food. You're starving because you're an airsoft player, right, and you've been walking past these Mandarin style buffets the whole way in and out of your CP. You're already agitated with your team. Half of them are accusing the other team of cheating because they shot their broken guns at them twice and didn't hit, fuck all. And you're like, you know what? I'm not going to let it get to me, though. I'm, I'm, I'm diehard, I'm a serious airsoft, airsoft, air. Let's bomb up our mags, boys, and let's get back out there. And you get, you get told you know what. You know what echo, what we really need right now. I know we're in this battle over this kitchen because if we don't secure it, we can't cook food of our own. We're going to fucking starve, right? So this is the only kitchen, the last one, the Mohican of kitchens, right, I know, it's important, boys, but here's what I need from you guys right now Go see Sam the boat salesman and what you don't know I may know but I'm not going to tell you is there's a team that for some reason is equipped better than JTF to, and they're lying in wait for you because they have some intel randomly given to them that you're going to be trying to buy a speedboat that you don't know you want to. You don't even know you want the boat, yet Sam's a classy guy, and then you get wasted and then you're left with a sense of you know I didn't feel the penetration, but I know my ass hurts. And then your reward is after that 20 minute walk back of dragging ass, you know you're going past the food lines again. You smell the roast chickens going and the barbecues flying and squad leaders and platoon leaders going. Where the fuck is? Everybody went home. What's going on? Right? This is my commitment. Why they go home is because you know. It's as simple as this. What's the current score in the Russo Ukrainian war? Nobody fucking knows. There's no points. There's no goals scored. They don't count goals.
Speaker 2:You want to flip flags? Raise your flag. Do you know what it means? It means you have a flag up. That that's good. It's good for morale. I like seeing flags, but it's a flag. It doesn't mysteriously Leech this, you know, unless it's the American flag. And then we get the soaring eagles and you hear. But I'm just saying we don't get some sort of buff. It's not a video game. We don't get it exhilarated somehow because a flag's flying. A flag flying means a flag is flying.
Speaker 2:Here's what winning means in the events that I enjoy the most and don't get me wrong, the point system, the flag flipping. They are fun. They're just not what this is. What this is is if you flip a flag, congratulations. You put claim to the area. It looks good, feels good, might make for some nice pictures.
Speaker 2:What winning is is taking a true tactical advantage. If I take an area on the map, I Don't get points for it. It means I have an area on the map taken and and this is, this is war, this is this is a simulation of warfare. I mean it kind of lends itself nicely to the name of mill sim. I have a hard time Simming anything when I go. How many points is that flag worth over there? You know, bob, if we, if we, if we manage to buy this fucking speedboat and we flip that flag, we get ten points. Ten points is what? How many, how many points wins a war? Yep, pretty good for immersion, it's. It's a nightmare, it's my, it's, in fact, my worst nightmare.
Speaker 2:I want to eliminate that. What I want to do is I want people to elevate their, their thinking, and I will. I will Honestly tip my hat and give full credit to, to some of the oldest hosts around, probably the only one really worth mentioning now, just because they're still active Brian Mackamoyle. He, he, I Gotta say in the early days, him and I butted heads like no tomorrow, but he taught me a lot at the Deadfall series when he used to give his speech at the end, which he hasn't done, but, but I used to love it.
Speaker 2:I mean, he still gives a speech, but he used to give the same speech, more or less, which was if you're here, congratulations, you have won being standing it. You know, winning is what it gives you. Winning is the joy, it's the pride, it's the exhilaration, it's the sense of completion, it's running the marathon, understanding you're gonna burn through band-aids and those nipples are gonna be sore, but you made it. That's, that's winning. I want to give people those sort of things I. I would hate it truly would be my biggest failure if people come back and go fuck. We lost by ten points.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what you're saying is you're not gonna. I know some games like. I've played a lot of events as, as you guys have nowhere near what you have, but you're not gonna hand. First of all, is there gonna be two faction commanders, or how's that gonna work?
Speaker 2:So with with the command of this game. Actually, this is a good way to go about it too. I like how we're tiptoeing into this game, so, so try not to get lost, because I'll make sure you do. I'm a scatterbrained that way, but here's how it works is the event itself, just backing up a little bit, is based on the territory. It's a stan, if you will right, in fact, it's compound a stan. Okay, love it. So the first thing you know, even before I I go to radicalized with this, is Do not take this the wrong way.
Speaker 2:This game, I want to make sure that we honor every culture and every people. Right, I hate each and every one of you, all the same. Okay, I bear no respect to any of you. So just just keep that in your minds that I'm not looking down on anyone, people. I look down on all people, but this is a stan.
Speaker 2:So imagine a region Just for your say it for yourself, to paint that picture. It could be anywhere from, you know, afghanistan, rate to Chechnya. That kind of Culture, those kind of people, those kind of climate, those kind of habits and and tradition. Okay, so that that paints a bit of a scene for you in those areas, some of those areas. A lot of a lot of the time they're kind of tribal people. You'll have village elders in some of those communities and peoples, which is going to be true to this game.
Speaker 2:So one faction is going to be driven by. There is a more or less central command that is more or less honored as the official leader. However, it's tribal, they're nomadic. They also have a bit of a power struggle. They're also not stabilized. It's to represent a very much third world country. You know they mostly agree, but at the same time, if their local tribal elder tells them, do X, you bet they're doing it and they are going to be pitted in this game against a NATO force, predominantly United States. However, it's open to any, any group that wants to show up to this event and make the roster in any NATO standard Uniform and unit will be able to play as long as your entire unit is in that same NATO standard dress and weaponry. So that that's. Those are the factions now within those. So yes and no is the final answer, without running too many times around the tree. Nato will have its actual standard join ops command. There'll be one, one commander in chief. The other side will have one commander but then several layers of sub leaders within it.
Speaker 1:So almost like a tribal platoon leaders, but not platoons, different little areas, different little villages. I know the compounds pretty spread apart, especially Concerning the new recent additions. So there's like little tiny Offshoots of towns and stuff like that. So it's gonna be more of a. Is it gonna be more of a condensed to one portion of the field, or is it gonna be a game that's Got vehicles and you utilizing roads and you're, you're, you've got you know fucking Shepherds in the field hurting people and stuff like that. Is that gonna be the type of gamers are gonna be centralized? Here is your set mission set. This is what's happening at this time. Be ready, follow this. Or is it gonna be? You don't know what the fuck you're doing. Get out there and figure it out Before it's too late. Is it that type or all?
Speaker 2:of it. So so, yeah, let's let's dive into this here. So we Painted the scenery of the region, of the people, of the culture. Now here, here's the story, here's the background and when. If you want more information, it's all gonna be a lot more available when we do the, the final post. Right? This is the teaser, so I'm just gonna give you the gist of it, so don't wet your panties on it.
Speaker 2:You are a NATO force, providing you're on the NATO side and you are going to a region. The reason why you're going to this region is I'm gonna piggyback off of what's actually happening in the world. So there's a lot of key players. We're seeing the, the reunification of almost the Warsaw and NATO Pax Warring this is really what we're seeing right now in Ukraine and with Yemen being involved, in Israel and Syria and all these different things right now. Right? So NATO understands, just like how you know, in the real world, right now, nato is not outright attacking Russia, just as an example, but what we are seeing is NATO is deciding to pick on some of the smaller players and he rode the same force, but they're choosing a safer angle and that's what we're seeing. So NATO has decided to invade Compound to stand and achieve a foothold there.
Speaker 2:Now, how do you achieve a foothold? Once again, back to my commitment. You're never going to achieve the foothold by running jugs of water or, you know, eating hot dogs or any other bullshit. You are going to stem the flow of traffic of weaponry, of Drugs, of any, any other source. It could be many things and there will be many different things that these Locals, these warlords, these local tribal leaders used to fund their private militias. The NATO forces need to stem that flow. They need to stabilize the region.
Speaker 2:Well, how do you stabilize the region? You have to win hearts and minds. You have to offer value. You have to show the locals that we're here for the bad guys, not the good guys, and and we want to meet. You know, we want to play both sides of the coin. They want to take them over. Of course, I mean, we can't hide it. We saw this in Iraq and Afghanistan and all this other stuff. Like yeah, we're good guys, we'll build your dams, will clear your bridges and all this other stuff, but ultimately, like we're gonna knock your doors down, raid your house and take your weapons. That's kind of the hidden motives. These are the real world things we're bringing into this.
Speaker 2:Now, if you're on the other side, how do you feel? You know, some foreigner just came and set up a roadblock. He's stopping your vehicles. So yeah, to answer, your vehicles, yes, there's vehicles. There's vehicles on both sides and and I'll touch later on why you need those vehicles. But you know you don't feel so hot that there's some, some goofball from New York now standing in your village who's telling you you have to go a different way, who's telling you open your jacket and show them that you have no weaponry. That's, you know, doing these things. So the the mood, the starting mood, is a bit of resentment. Some of the locals may have some high hopes that this is gonna bring stability.
Speaker 1:Others will outright hate your guts just for being there that's pretty pretty on par for the type of game that I'm interested in. I'm just gonna put it out there. For sure sounds like it's got a lot of Intricacies, but it's super simple at the same time, which I like. I just want to back up a little bit and get a little bit more information out. So you said earlier so NATO Specific kits and weaponry for the one side, correct?
Speaker 1:Yes okay, that information Obviously will be put out in advance of what is required to sign up for that side and our variations within reason of a NATO firearm M4, carbine, m249, stuff like that and Other country weapons allowed, or is it super, super strict? Sorry to put you on the spot.
Speaker 2:Because they they overlap, so variations Are allowed and and that that fits within being strict as well. So, for reference, I guess we can use this as a reference material. Milsim West is a really good job of it and we'll do similar. So for anybody that's curious and they want a sort of sneak peek of what to expect, you can look to their stuff. It's not a rip off of it, but it's gonna be similar. We'll be throwing up pictures. I'll be.
Speaker 2:I'll be when this game actually is being formed together in squad leaders and and platoon leaders are gonna be picked. We'll be speaking to you as squad leads and platoon leads via video chat. So the individual troops they will get that information Handed down to them, but we'll be very crystal clear on this. Everybody, however, we'll have access to the photos of, you know, examples of kit. They can have, types of uniform they can have and things like this, but we'll use an example if you say okay, well, my group represents my squad, represents Canadian soldiers. Okay, you're all in CAD pad and buddy in the back has a G36. Sorry, it's not gonna happen. Yeah, not for you, not gonna happen.
Speaker 2:And likewise, within NATO, in this game there will be Skills. You know when I, when I say NATO, it's not like the army shows up in wins wars. There are different services involved. There are special forces, there are regular soldiers, there's artillery men and so on. Right, the special forces unit, for example, and there will be one For all of the, all of you that want to be fully geared out. You know, to become special forces in this game, you must bear that kit. I'm so sick and tired of somebody signing up in a sniper role and they have an m4 and a $49 ghillie. It's not gonna happen here. My commitment to you if you're spec ops and you don't have night vision, you're not very special, are you? And? And likewise, if you sign up and you're like, okay, well, my group here. We're part of the NATO standard troops. I'm sorry, nato standard troops aren't rocking $40,000 thermals. It ain't in the budget, right, slava, the budget, but it ain't there.
Speaker 1:What about the other side? So we kind of touched on the the NATO end and we'll obviously simplify and get some more information out Now for the viewers out there. Myself I am directly attached to this project as well, so I am working alongside with echo to give you guys the experience that we're trying to get out into the Ontario airsoft world this year with games like operation gun runner and the game we're discussing now and A couple other game, hoser elevating as well, which is good to see. But yeah, so on the other side of the coin. So say, I wanted to be, I guess, would it be insurgency or you could call them an insurgent.
Speaker 2:I call them locals or or native population, right, whatever you want to call them right, local citizen, but they they're, they're not really an insurgent because it's their land. Yeah, makes sense, but in terms of their types of loadouts, think of a country that ends with Stan and and, and you know, google it if you, if you have a problem right, could you have a G3? Absolutely any type of Kalashnikov platform? Could you have a M16 a1, possibly a couple, but, once again, these, these will be limited though if you, if you have a one-off gun, you know, if you can't, I don't want guys showing up going. Well, I have two, five M249s and I Don't know three MP5s in my team. I don't mind if we have one or two MP5s throughout the whole, the whole side. Yeah, you want one M249. It could be, you know, made the case that it's a captured weapon, not made of stone, but I want, by and large, it to represent an, a accurate, general overview. Like are there M4s in the Middle East? Of course there are, oh, yeah, but by and large, in terms of sample size there, they're not there. No, you know, they're one, they represent one in a thousand, right, and I want to keep that kind of visual ratio that includes your dress.
Speaker 2:Boys and girls, you show up to this game wearing multi cam. You better or not be a local? Yeah, if you are, you're, you're probably gonna be lynched by your own populace for being a traitor. I want the, the attitude, the behaviors to represent, the force you're representing. So you know, going deeper in this and honestly, I I think this game offers so much immersion To the players I could go off on it for three hours and still not hit all the points that are gonna that people are gonna get buried in. Imagine you are a local. Your, your uniform could be a suit, jacket and slacks. It could be Middle Eastern, you know, sort of a straight cut collar pajama type outfit, Something more traditional. It could be more eastern block right, because we're everywhere, from that sort of Chechnya to the stands right anywhere in that region.
Speaker 2:We want you looking the part. If you don't look the part, this is not the game for you. If what? What I'm looking for is I want guys to show up wearing their fake beards. I want guys to enjoy the fact that we're gonna have incense burning. We're gonna have food burned, like cooking for the that you'd find in those local regions. There'll be music playing. It is going to be an immersive experience.
Speaker 2:This game is not for you. If you're looking for 300 on 300, let's, let's dump mags. This is not for you. If you want something where you're gonna feel a sense of accomplishment, where winning is a sensation, not a, not a score, this is for you, and that includes being part of your role and with that is Understanding that you come from. As I said earlier, this is representing a third world country, I'm sorry to say. You don't have a seven thousand dollar optic. In fact, your team is gonna be limited to one in three with any optic at all. Okay.
Speaker 2:So, ladies and gentlemen, if you have something really obscure, this is your chance to use it. I would love to see guys out there running their moans for this. I'd love to see guys out there, maybe just with a pistol right, as long as it's not a speed QB piece of junk. I'd love to see guys you know, get an old Sten gun, a sterling like, bring out your real oddball, weird stuff. Do you'd find sort of black market in those areas? This is your chance to just have a ball with it, to really just offload on on the other group, which. Those are your people in the community that want Organization. They want to sit in a talk, they want to see drone footage of what's happening. You know, that's why this game is gonna offer something to anybody that wants to be part of it. You want to just go ham, you want to joke around and and Bug some, some Marines for an hour, frustrate them before pulling the cord on your bomb vest. This is your game what?
Speaker 1:so let's, let's go back a little bit, because I know you touched on it briefly. For Special forces, how is it gonna go for the locals and night vision?
Speaker 2:So the locals will possess their own Version of night vision, which is more of a training type thing, where they're just gonna squint their eyes real good, and look for Shapes and and unload on. You know, I want this game, I want Any time you're unsure of anything at this game, I want you all to think what would they really do? What would it really be like? In a General sense, because nobody, nowhere know how, can hit it every time, right, yeah, but we can go. Generally speaking, you know, once again, do they have night vision, afghanistan or Iraq or any? Of course they do.
Speaker 1:By and large, they don't depends on If it was before or after Biden left everything for them.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, as far as I know, canada is still trying to buy that. We need to replace ours with some good stuff. So if we can get the old terrorists garbage, that'd be an upgrade for us. But, but no, I really want people to think about that. You know, and actually we were talking about it just before. I use a really good example for rule sets, and once again you're not getting this all right now. This is just the teaser. Here's a basic thing that I was asked. Last night. Kyle said to me. You know what was your question exactly, kyle? I think it was.
Speaker 3:I was at Deadfall and the guy rolled over on on his R2B and it went off at my feet, but I got hit by no fragmentation and with my ear protection on, it really wasn't anything crazy. If I was facing the other way I could have mistaken that for a flash and I was just kind of asking whether or not your grenade rules were gonna be radius or Like fragmentation or BB hit, bb kill, and so that I think that's where I was going with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so so that's just, I wanted him to give you guys the exact question as it was asked to me. So here's the way I think of it. You know, I bring myself back and I say what would happen if this was real? And in my mind I'm thinking okay, well, you saw flash. You didn't hear it because you had your pelter sign. You didn't feel anything. To me that represents like the last thought running through your brain as your body is liquefied. Right, that frag grenade went off at your feet. It's. It's like yes, you didn't feel anything because you didn't have the chance to feel anything. You got turned into pudding right, at the very least, your combat ineffective. Any way you want to put it right.
Speaker 1:So wounded, you definitely wounded you're wounded, you got to do. That actually brings up a. That was a great question, kyle. I was gonna ask the same one. That actually brings up another point. Okay, so Kyle's wounded say he did call it whatever. That was a great fucking game.
Speaker 1:Deadfall, by the way, thank you boys I call it the 12 strong game and we're gonna touch on it on the end of the echo episode, because Deadfall this year Jotf was primarily life fighters and echo and it was fucking magical. But we'll touch on that a different episode. I want to go to the medical end of the rule set for this game. Now, for the people listening to, there will be a typed up rule set. It's all coming down the line. We're putting stuff together. There's a lot going on, obviously with the development of the field. These new games, the new game host the new abilities that we have now to host, now that PRZ's gone and we've had to adjust our game set and go to a bigger, more open field. Now how is it gonna be For the people that are grenade or shot? What happens next? Nato side.
Speaker 2:Okay. So this is a good question and I mean, I think it's obvious. Two guys put their hand on your shoulder and you run through the woods with them until you find safety now I'm just kidding you Do not get blown up with a hand grenade and two boys put their arms around you and you run with them. Think about it. What happens if you get shot? Right now in the sport we're playing a hit as a kill Right. Unless the rules specify in there, you know we could go, we could go really crazy with it and be like oh, if you're shot in the leg, you you know it's this or that, but we're, we're going to go, we're gonna simulate up to the point where it stops making sense. So you're shot, what would? What would really happen? I'll break it down for you. Your team can choose to leave your body out in the field. So it's a real-world possibility. Or they retrieve you and that's that's it.
Speaker 1:Is there a bleed out or no? There is no bleed out. Perfect, thank you.
Speaker 2:And the reason why I'm not worried about there not being a bleed out is you will not be without your squad. It is simply put. So Fear not about getting shot out in the woods, because if you're shot out in the woods You're just as light a bit liable to be shot as a deserter by your own team anyways, because you better be with your squad. You get hit, you go down, you're calling for medic, you're wounded. Right, there's a few ways it can work. You could be dragged, you could be thrown on a stretcher, you could be thrown in a vehicle. You'd be carried by five guys. Those are the only ways you are dead weight.
Speaker 2:So you know those games where you run up to a guy and you you, if Revive him from the dead and you ask his spirit Can I pull on your gear? I, you have my commitment. Don't sign up for the game if we can't pull on you. Don't sign up for the game if we can't lift you. Don't sign in the game if you can't lay down in your hit. Don't sign on the game if you can't, for some reason, play dead. The easiest thing to do it's. It's less work than sleeping like you're just laying there right when you're hit, you just lay there. That's your only job. To lay there. Your team will have to approach you, put a tourniquet on which simulates stabilizing your wound. They will then have to give you a bottle of water, which represents putting in your IV, and then they X-fill you. Medics can do this. That's it, it's simple.
Speaker 1:So there's no your rate back and firing after you get the bottle of water. Are you combat effective at that point, or do you need to be taken back to a capture point, control point, whatever the fuck you want to call it, and then you're back in? Or are you instantly back in after you're turn to kitted and bottled?
Speaker 2:No. So I want some mechanism in the game to give consequence. You know, if I shoot you and it's easy you just put a turn to get on you and you drink water and then you're back shooting. That squad never really paid the price for losing you. I want it felt. I want you to now have to be X filled right.
Speaker 2:A squad that loses two or three guys. They're not sticking around. This is not that type of game. These big World War II you know, iwo Jima fight to the last man. Things are not really a thing in current NATO doctrine. It is preservation of life. When you lose one or two guys. Yeah, so it's only one or two guys, but it's also one or two guys. That's a serious thing. Somebody just you know. Let's think of what you know real world. Somebody just got killed on your team. We need to act that way. This is a serious thing. They need to be Kazvacked. Once they get Kazvacked, they're right back in with their squad. So if their squad decides they want to lose one, and have that person escort it, because, keep in mind, they can't get off the field themselves. If they get loaded into a medical truck, let's say, and trucked back to their operation point. Their squad can still operate without one person, but that one person can't come in the field until their squad comes back and reforms with them.
Speaker 1:So what happens if, since there's no bleed out, say that fight like I know for us, I never leave a fucking man behind but say that fight diverts you to you know, a kilometer away, because you got bumped, you move back and you're currently getting pushed. Say you're not winning the gunfight and they're pushing your line further back and to stay alive, you keep moving back, you keep getting wider, whatever you adjust your L, whatever that person, because there's no bleed out, that now is cut off and is dead in the bush. What's their options now? Do they have to wait or can they say I'm done, I quit for now. I don't wanna sit in the bush for three hours? How do they get back into the game? So how does that work?
Speaker 2:So there's a couple ways. One, let's think of real world. They would likely be captured For sure. They'd likely be videotaped and executed or extorted. I like the idea of any of those. I think you get creative.
Speaker 1:So they can, and this kind of correlates to the Deadfall series for those who've played it. You can take prisoners, absolutely, so this game warrants taking prisoners, or you have the option of walking up to that guy and just ending it right there. Already we doing dead right there.
Speaker 2:So kind of like, if you want to, sure, but even a body has value, true, you want plaster social media with photos of the dead, right like. Ask yourself at every turn at this game, what would they do in real life? What would they really do? A dead US soldier is still worth something. Sure, he might be worth a prisoner swap. He might be worth NATO's. Gotta put in some work somewhere, right. What can they do for you now? Because you have something they want and I want that felt. For example, let's say a squad loses two or three guys, that squad can't go back out. They're combat ineffective. And now there are other squads. Their objectives now change to. We gotta get these bodies back. I mean, what a terrible drain is that when you're, let's say, four squads and now you gotta divert two of them to go retrieving a dead guy.
Speaker 1:Especially if you're a task to hold a specific point on the field, exactly so Everything has consequences.
Speaker 2:Everything about this game, like you know, I can say, defer to the rules, defer to asking yourself what would they really do? Right, and I think that's just a cool mechanism to put it in there. Right, we have to give some mechanism to it because it's a game, ultimately, right? So, like with the DRT thing, with somebody's giving up and saying, okay, okay, I'm done, it's a possibility, right, I wouldn't wanna remove that. It's not gonna be in the rules, right, it's not gonna be something I want players doing. But of course, there's exceptions. I'll give you one. Let's say, there's some sort of a strange scenario where there's a standoff and you're laying cooking in the sun. Don't lay there and get sun stroked out. Like, let's be reasonable. But if I see people that are dead going, well, I've been here for half an hour and getting up, this is not the game for you. If you can't show up to a game, being prepared to lay down, I don't know what else you're not prepared to do.
Speaker 1:Like, you're probably there just for the barbecue 100% and that's what we're trying to change in Ontario Airsoft. We're trying to elevate, now that we have this canvas, we have the ability to do that with our games, and that's what I really like to hear. And I wanna get this information out because game hosts, they need to take some cues. And I know Milsim West was mentioned and obviously in no way are we copying what they're doing. We're honestly honoring them in a way by following to a certain degree of what they're doing, and it sounds like you're kinda taking their direction towards the rule end of it, which I like to see 100%.
Speaker 2:It's purely out of respect for the organization and there's no affiliation right, so they don't need to feel embarrassed or threatened or, however, whichever way in between right? The bottom line is this this is the game. That's like you need to look in that mirror and go am I a fucking pussy? And if you're not sign up, man, you guys are gonna have a blast. But if you look in that mirror and you're like you know what three of my teammates had to call a no-duff because, fuck, if I know, I twisted my ankle.
Speaker 2:Twisting your ankle is a serious thing. You probably had a sore ankle for a few days. I mean, that would even stop you from running. I don't fucking know, but it doesn't stop a whole game. You twisted your fucking ankle, but it really hurts. Was your life in any sort of peril? The answer is never gonna be yes, unless there's some really odd, obscure reason. Right, somebody was sick, they were vomiting. I have no doubt that's a serious thing and of course, as a game host, of course we'll take that very, very seriously, along with the ankle, my point being, the game doesn't have to stop for it. The issue is serious. We will take it serious, but the game doesn't stop.
Speaker 2:I had my tooth shot out. I'm gonna scream and it probably fucking hurt man, you just had your tooth fucking shot out, I have no doubt. But I don't need to stop shooting a guy half a kilometer away because you didn't wear mouth gear. Unfuck your shit. Man up and let's play fucking airsoft. And if anybody I have never to date and you guys feel free to send me all the hate mail you want send me videos of some fucking Yankee yelling at some Haji saying call your hits bro. Never fucking happened, oh man, never happened.
Speaker 1:That's actually what. Let's go touch on this. You actually got a new question in my head, so it's. It is serious, especially as a field owner and I'm talking as a field owner if someone gets hurt. Now the compound we have the ability to get you off the field super fast Stretchers, trailers, side-by-sides, four-wheelers. Safety is priority number one and the field will take care of that situation so the game can go on. Okay, so you have that ability at the compound. But my question to you as a game host Am I going to see red shirts on the field or a bunch of NPCs like? Am I going to feel comfortable with the amount of staff on the field at your games, and Is that something that kind of ruins the immersion? And what are you going to do To kind of make sure people are feeling safe hit calling wise, safety wise but to not kind of take the Authenticity off the field? Do you know what I'm trying to say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so let's it's really tough, no well, you know it's.
Speaker 2:It's easy. It's hard to give the Airsoft community the right answer. Yeah, that's the problem, because the right answer is gonna leave a lot of people with some sore asses. So here's the thing you hit a big game, 500 player game. 300 of them are good, 200 of them are bags of shit. There's a reason why this game is not 500 players.
Speaker 2:I want the cream showing up, I want the guys showing up, that Both sides want those people showing up. I want you to be happy your enemy showed up that day. I Don't want this to be your typical game where these guys show up and they think they're bad asses because they've played for a year and a Half and you're like who the fuck are these guys? And they're gonna cheat like mad, have a barbecue and be gone in two hours, right? Yep? This is not the game for you. So here's, here's how I would handle this.
Speaker 2:Game staff will be present. Game staff will not be present in red shirts. There's no red shirts walking around on a battlefield. You won't know who game staff are. The reason why is because it's more or less irrelevant to you.
Speaker 2:Game staff are there to make sure we can ensure the Safety and that the game is followed honorably. If there's a problem, you know they'll deal with it, but I don't believe that we should be there waiting to hit check somebody, like if you got to do that. If you have to hit check a player, that player probably shouldn't be welcome at your event. Yeah, right, at the same time There'll be a lot of guys running Cameras. Right, here's a quick. If you're really truly concerned, show me footage of anything and I'll remove somebody Instantaneously from from any of my presence.
Speaker 2:At any event I ever go to. But realistically, I don't want this should not be a problem, because those caliber of players I think you're gonna weed themselves out of this game and the way that I would like the game to develop and grow, being squad leaders will recruit their squads. I think you'll find that those players just won't show up at all. Yeah, they're certainly not welcome if they do show up. So, if, if that sounds like you, if you're like, yeah, I'm gonna cheat a little bit, eat a little bit, fuck, you stay home, right, I don't like you, right.
Speaker 1:Let's put a, let's put an example out there. Say it's tough and I know I'm gonna get some flack back on this. Say somebody really wants to play the event, but they don't have the fucking uniform, the right weapon in the attire To play for NATO. But all their friends are playing on NATO, but they only have, you know, the normal T-shirt, pants, whatever that the other side can wear. What do you say to people like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I just say fuck you. See you next year.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean you also got to consider Hopefully some of your friends might have something you can beg, borrow and, you know, play with it. It's a community right, so hopefully you can find a friend that has something or you know it doesn't. It doesn't necessarily have to be the best quality to still be the right color pattern.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially if it comes to being yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:If it comes to being one game. Pick up the cheapest repro you can get, play with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just one thing.
Speaker 3:I'll your friends.
Speaker 1:I will never. I I you can quote me on this right here I'll never, ever wear multi cam. I'm sorry, I just won't do it and it's not a shot at anybody, it's just I won't play that game if it requires me wearing multi cam. So that's where I like how you didn't do the tan versus Civvy, it's more NATO versus Civvy. There's one other host that kind of did that which was for a green mile, which kind of worked out because you only have one team shoot in the fucking cars. Yeah right, so it's super simple. I think what you're doing is you're forcing people to play the character, which I really enjoy and it kind of Really gets me excited for an event. Now, unfortunately, I won't be actually fucked out. I can't, I'm not even gonna give anything out.
Speaker 2:Think of what we're solving here, right? Like those, those games, the big games, for example. You know, we all know the big game I'm talking about, right, I won't shit talk anybody just yet. You take your vest off and you we're on the green team and for some reason you have a tan t-shirt, and now it's hot, so you're playing with a tan t-shirt. Fuck you, you get, you get caught out there. You're a NATO soldier. Anybody, anybody with military friends, ask what happens if you're in a combat zone fighting out of uniform. I Think you then fall under the definition of a non uniform combat. You're gonna end up in two places, right? Neither of them are very good for you, so Not permissible. That that's basically it, right. If you don't have the gear and you want to play, that's okay, I can accommodate you. It's called the other team, yep, right, it doesn't cost much, in fact. Hey, we're at action air. There's a was, a goodwill value village, whatever the fuck it is literally right there.
Speaker 2:Go, buy yourself an old suit, jacket, some slacks and pretend you're from the caucus, fucking mountains. I don't care it costs you what 50 cents to do it. Yeah right it. You know like it's a strange thing to have to talk to people about in this day and age, but we're trying to simulate something. If you've never been to a milsim and sadly Most of you've gone to a lot, but you've never been to one you might actually show up to a milsim this time.
Speaker 2:Yep, my commitment I made to you guys earlier about the bullshit factor, it's gonna resonate through all of it. It's gonna resonate through the objectives. It's gonna resonate through I promise you you'll never shoot at somebody and go. He's wearing our fucking camel. I don't understand It'll. It'll come down to that. It'll come down to where did my money go? You ever paid more to play airsoft and you do at a nice resort and got fuck all other than the opportunity to Bring a bag of BBs and shoot at somebody. You will get your money's worth. Okay, it's not hard to do. In fact, I'm happy to show how simple and fun it can be for everybody perfect.
Speaker 1:We I guess we don't have cost out right now of Of ticket price, but that's being worked out. That'll all be announced real soon on social media platforms.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So here's the reality. It's a high-end game. It's gonna come with a high-end price tag. I'm not here to throw you over the counter and pull your wallet out your back pocket, but it certainly isn't free. It's going to be in line with other major games. For a few reasons, the field deserves its cut. Props are not cheap, but guess what? I'm actually gonna buy them this time. Your money, that's right. We'll go to your experience. It's not lining my pockets. My team doesn't get New night vision or thermals or something like that because you played at this event. What happens is you get a better experience and that money is not spent on Fireworks.
Speaker 2:We're gonna shoot up in the air because, I mean, they're nice to see, but we're not simulating the 4th of July Shooter here, correct? We're simulating a war zone. Okay, so I'm sorry If you wanted to show up and shoot Roman candles up in the air. I don't know what you're celebrating. Hey, you could be celebrating your birthday on the front line, but that's what it's gonna represent. There is no sprinklers, no sparklers, no fucking what's that other thing? A little worm thing that went there.
Speaker 2:No burning school houses or other bullshit. There is fucking hand grenades, there is landmines, there is IEDs, there is, there are explosives. If you want to count points and say I got 10 points for waving a flag, good for fucking you, it counted for nothing in my game yeah, give yourself all the points you want.
Speaker 1:Okay, so quick recap there is pretty specific, uniform rules for both sides. Be aware of that. If you like what you're hearing, start thinking about that with your buddies. Sign up. The information on single or squad sign up that will come out with the social media package release as well. This game, I think, is gonna be regular sign up, but the second game, or the spin off game, it's gonna be more of a recruitment style sign up after we get the first kind of game out there. So this one will probably stick to either squad or single sign up and then the 2.0 of this game or this game series continuation. That'll be more along the lines of down through the ranks.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly exactly this game. It's not as big as the next ones are gonna be. Right, this game is. It's a larger game. It ain't that large, yep. So spots are gonna fill. Spots are gonna fill fast.
Speaker 2:I want the hardest of the hard. I don't leave your pussies at home. There you go. Right, if you wanna show up, I brought my new guy, fuck him. Leave him at home, bring who can shoot, bring your real boys and girls out to this event, okay, and then later down the road, if you love it, come to the next one. If you don't like it, fuck you. You're gonna like it. Yeah, right, there's no reason not to.
Speaker 2:It's a very simple premise. I know this. Probably I'm sort of realizing this sounds like a lot. Here's how we're gonna accomplish it. Maybe this can ease some minds too. We're gonna accomplish this by giving each side their individual rule set individually the broad spectrum, blanket rule set that's gonna be available for everybody to see. But we're gonna hone in and focus individually on small groups and give them their individual objectives, goals and rules, so that it's not lost. We're not speaking to 150 people at a time and they're all. Half of them got it. Some of them never read it. Three of them didn't acknowledge it and one of them doesn't even know what the fuck they're there for. Everybody's gonna be crystal clear. This is my commitment to you Everybody on that field. You'll know what's up, or? Please don't show up.
Speaker 1:What about length?
Speaker 2:Length. We haven't finalized the actual length. We never actually talked about the up to point, but I like open-ended games.
Speaker 2:When it ends it ends, yeah, so I don't know how to word it, and I think that's where the only thing that's holding me back on it is I don't wanna tell somebody. It's 24 hours and this is not November 11th. We haven't called the other side and said, on the 11th fucking hour, on the 11th day, the war ends when it ends. It ends when the objectives are met. Now, that being said, there's mechanisms in place to make sure that this game ends within a 24 hour span. It's within that span. If you show up there and anybody says to me well, I only went 20 hours, I don't know what to tell you. Too fucking bad, stop doing so.
Speaker 2:Well, it ends when it ends, because what we've had at previous events is the game is over, the game is long fucking over, and then it's like okay, well, let's just skirmish in the village. Then I'm sorry, that is a different fucking game. I showed up, we met our objectives. That story is compromised. It's over. A game is an event and, by definition, an event has a beginning, a middle and an end. It has ended. The new event of randomly shoot at people for an arbitrary reason in a village, that's something else, and if you wanna do that, that's cool too. That's just not at this game.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, you are hearing it first on the Airsoft experience. I hope that answers a little bit of the more basic questions that Airsofters have about events. You can start to see some social media stuff coming on this event and some other events that the coalition and I are hosting together, and what we can do is we're going to do Facebook live slash zoom where we can get more in-depth information to more of the leaders of this game and that can start trickling down. So keep your eyes on social media and I really want you guys to listen to the.
Speaker 1:Actually, the episode will be aired before this one. So we're gonna be recording a episode on the Echo team so you can get a history on how long they've been around and what their goals are and stuff like that. So listen to that prior to this one. That'll be out relatively soon and then this one will be aired right after. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. I guess any of the other contact information we'll put in the description, because we're kind of working on that end of it right now, but really excited about this change of PACE in Ontario Airsoft and I just wanted to quickly sit down, even though it was an hour long, sit down with Mike, mac, george and Kyle here and get some information out to you guys so you can start getting excited because this game is coming out early. There's gonna be some other things. We're gonna probably do another episode a little bit closer to after we get more of the final details kind of hashed out and that's gonna be more of a point to point kind of episode. We just kind of wanna get it out there, get into the listeners ears, into the community, to start getting excited about what's coming.
Speaker 1:2024 at the compound. So thank you both for coming out and I look forward to sitting with you again for another hour and a half in about 20, 30 minutes. So we're gonna do this all over again, but we really need to get you guys out here. We need the community to know who you are and what we're about and look for us. So we will see you guys out on the field and hopefully we will see you guys out at this game. We don't even have a name for it yet, but we wanted to get it out there. So thanks a lot, guys. And, yeah, thanks for coming out, thanks for having us Thanks again.
